However, one person is confident that irrespective of whether India gets the Cryogenic Technology or not, it will have to stand up for itself because “strength respects strength”.
The man is Dr Avil Pakir Jainulabdeen Abdul Kalam, better known as Abdul Kalam, the brain behind the Indian Space Research Organisation’s (ISRO) space development programme. He is the chairman of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme and the director of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
However, no longer with ISRO, Abdul Kalam’s heart still lies with the organization. A father figure to ISRO scientists, Kalam is not exactly upset over Russia’s reneging on the deal. Confident of himself and “his” scientists at ISRO, Kalam says that it’s time Indians started respecting themselves and became “self-dependent”.
Talking to SUNDAY in his South Block office, Dr ABDUL KALAM refused to discuss in detail India’s missile development programme. He, however, agreed to talk at length on the cryogenic engine deal. Excerpts from the interview:
SUNDAY: Is the Cryogenic engine deal on or off? There are conflicting signals coming from various quarters.
Abdul Kalam: According to all the information reaching me, it is still on. There is no official information that the deal is off. Irrespective of whether we get the technology or not, as far as I can see, India, especially the ISRO, should become self-sufficient.
Q: Why in the first place, did India choose to depend on Soviet technology in a crucial area like the country’s space programme?
A: Good question. There are two reasons. Cryogenic engine technology would have coasted us Rs 400-500 crore. Secondly, it (that money) would have cost us at least a five-year setback. So, ISRO decided to go faster, schedule-wise, and have a cost advantage. Anybody would do it. If there is available technology which given me cost and schedule advantages, then I would go for it. There is nothing wrong in it. But today, technology is used as a tool for commercial purposes and we have to break such strangle-holds. We have to be self-sufficient.
If you take any country or any space system, the fact remains that even in developed countries; 30-40 percent of the space technology comes from other countries. You cannot make everything indigenously. For example, India is one of the leading countries in the solid propulsion system. ISRO is developing the third-largest booster fir its Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) system. You have to be selective about what you want.
Q: Why is cryogenic technology important to India?
A: cryogenic engine has the highest energy level. It uses liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen. Cryogenic engines help in increasing the satellite payload. Each kilogram of satellite payload has an advantage of a lakh of rupees. Normally you do not have to use a booster when you use cryogenic engine. Since cryogenic engines facilitate a high payload, it is useful at the upper stages. This, in turn, means cutting down costs. Missile boosters are normally solid boosters. Therefore, you do not use cryogenic engines for missile launches.
Q: Isn’t our dependence on foreign technology at variance with our aim of become self-sufficient?
A: Let me explain what has actually happened in rocketry, there is solid propulsion and liquid propulsion. Initially, ISRO started concentrative on the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV). Naturally, it should be the highest priority. The decision was taken to go in for a XXX synchronous launch. At that time, a decision taken to go in for the cryogenic technology. The cryogenic technology was available not only in Russia but also in France and USA, The Russians were offering the technology at the lower cost and therefore we opted for the Russian technology.
Q: When India decided to go in for the technology, was there any indication that Russia would not fulfill the contract?
A: There was no indication that Russia would renege on the deal.
Q: Why then, has the deal been call-off for all practical purposes?
A: Cryogenic technology has more commercial implications than straits ones. Commercial philosophy and policy are the determining reasons when cryogenic technology should be given a particular country or not. Cryogenic technology will help the country achieving greatness as it can launch own commercial satellite via its satellite vehicle.
Satellite launching, as of now, is donated by Europeans and the Africans. In case a country achieves the technology of launching its own satellite domination will be removed. This is main fear that has been the key point the transfer of cryogenic technology.
Q: Does ISRO have any contingency plan to fall back on, now that there is little hope of getting cryogenic technology?
A: Why, should I have planned something? Why would have imagined that cryogenic technology would acquire such strategic dimensions? Cryogenic technology is not used for missile propulsion systems anywhere in the world.
At no time will I consider that cryogenic engines have any strategic implications, like application of missiles. Nobody will use cryogenic technology for developing missiles. Cryogenic technology is not considered as a strategic technology.
It is not as if ISRO has just been depending on the transfer of cryogenic technology to get going. Also, it is not as if they are basically zero in cryogenic technology. Work has already on in this area. Even though I am no longer with ISRO, I have worked there for almost 20 years. I know that cryogenic work has been continuously going on. That is why the ISRO scientists are confident that they will be able to meet the challenge.
Q: What kind of setback has the Indian space programme suffered because of the problem?
A: If we do not get the cryogenic technology, it does not mean that we will not be able to launch geo-synchronous satellite. It will, however, be more expensive. The launcher will be heavier, and there will be some safety problems.
Everybody did not start with cryogenic technology. I am confident that ISRO will recover in a few years’ time. As far the launching of satellite is concerned, there are a number of satellite launchers available in the world market. ISRO can always select the appropriate one. So, the satellite programme, and our communication programme, will not be affected at all.
But it is our own satellite launching programme i.e., launching of satellites from Indian soil that will put it’s behind by a few years. My assessment is that within two to five years, depending on a number of factors like our priorities, commitments and the money available, we will recover from is setback.
Q: Do you really think that the ISRO scientists can overcome these difficulties in two years?
A: Developing cryogenic technology has become a national commitment, a National programme. ISRO will gear up because it will become the single most important programme. If you ask me, I think it will take four years. But I have seen in the past that any programme or project, if given the highest priority, can be done faster and the time period for developing the technology can be reduced. So, one need not get tremendously worried. We will take it as a challenge. How to meet that challenge rather than this problem should be our concern now.
Q: The Americans had imposed sanctions against ISRO some time back. How much has that hurt ISRO?
A: Let me give you an example. In the 1980’s, we needed a Supercomputer. When we approached America, they refused, saying that it could be used for strategic purposes. Now we have our own supercomputer, Anurag. Now the Americans are saying that they would like sell supercomputers to India (laughs).
Q: In spite of India’s intensions of using cryogenic technology for peaceful purposes, why is it that it has not been able to convince the rest of the world, especially USA?
A: World politics is a strange thing. When politics and commercial interest combine, logic fails.
Q: Do you think that Indo-Russian cooperation in space technology will suffer because the Russians have reneged on the cryogenic deal?
A: We believe that it should not affect Indo-Russian cooperation in space technology. The entire issue of cryogenic engines is a business event and should be treated as one. But we should derive a lesson from the imbroglio. We have to be self-reliant in critical technology.
Q: As a compromise, Russia has offered India as many cryogenic engines as it wants without transfer of the actual technology….
A: I do not think ISRO will accept such a solution. It may not help ISRO. We cannot and should not make compromises. Technology has to be our mission. That is the only way India can be great.
Q: Recently, China has sold M-11 missiles to Pakistan. The USA has imposed sanctions against both China and Pakistan for the sale. How much of a threat does the M-11 pose to India?
A: First of all, have the M-11 missiles reached Pakistan? Even if they have, you should remember that India is a missile power (smiles).
Ketan Narottam Tanna/ New Delhi
However, one person is confident that irrespective of whether India gets the Cryogenic Technology or not, it will have to stand up for itself because “strength respects strength”.
The man is Dr Avil Pakir Jainulabdeen Abdul Kalam, better known as Abdul Kalam, the brain behind the Indian Space Research Organisation’s (ISRO) space development programme. He is the chairman of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme and the director of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
However, no longer with ISRO, Abdul Kalam’s heart still lies with the organization. A father figure to ISRO scientists, Kalam is not exactly upset over Russia’s reneging on the deal. Confident of himself and “his” scientists at ISRO, Kalam says that it’s time Indians started respecting themselves and became “self-dependent”.
Talking to SUNDAY in his South Block office, Dr ABDUL KALAM refused to discuss in detail India’s missile development programme. He, however, agreed to talk at length on the cryogenic engine deal. Excerpts from the interview:
SUNDAY: Is the Cryogenic engine deal on or off? There are conflicting signals coming from various quarters.
Abdul Kalam: According to all the information reaching me, it is still on. There is no official information that the deal is off. Irrespective of whether we get the technology or not, as far as I can see, India, especially the ISRO, should become self-sufficient.
Q: Why in the first place, did India choose to depend on Soviet technology in a crucial area like the country’s space programme?
A: Good question. There are two reasons. Cryogenic engine technology would have coasted us Rs 400-500 crore. Secondly, it (that money) would have cost us at least a five-year setback. So, ISRO decided to go faster, schedule-wise, and have a cost advantage. Anybody would do it. If there is available technology which given me cost and schedule advantages, then I would go for it. There is nothing wrong in it. But today, technology is used as a tool for commercial purposes and we have to break such strangle-holds. We have to be self-sufficient.
If you take any country or any space system, the fact remains that even in developed countries; 30-40 percent of the space technology comes from other countries. You cannot make everything indigenously. For example, India is one of the leading countries in the solid propulsion system. ISRO is developing the third-largest booster fir its Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) system. You have to be selective about what you want.
Q: Why is cryogenic technology important to India?
A: cryogenic engine has the highest energy level. It uses liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen. Cryogenic engines help in increasing the satellite payload. Each kilogram of satellite payload has an advantage of a lakh of rupees. Normally you do not have to use a booster when you use cryogenic engine. Since cryogenic engines facilitate a high payload, it is useful at the upper stages. This, in turn, means cutting down costs. Missile boosters are normally solid boosters. Therefore, you do not use cryogenic engines for missile launches.
Q: Isn’t our dependence on foreign technology at variance with our aim of become self-sufficient?
A: Let me explain what has actually happened in rocketry, there is solid propulsion and liquid propulsion. Initially, ISRO started concentrative on the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV). Naturally, it should be the highest priority. The decision was taken to go in for a XXX synchronous launch. At that time, a decision taken to go in for the cryogenic technology. The cryogenic technology was available not only in Russia but also in France and USA, The Russians were offering the technology at the lower cost and therefore we opted for the Russian technology.
Q: When India decided to go in for the technology, was there any indication that Russia would not fulfill the contract?
A: There was no indication that Russia would renege on the deal.
Q: Why then, has the deal been call-off for all practical purposes?
A: Cryogenic technology has more commercial implications than straits ones. Commercial philosophy and policy are the determining reasons when cryogenic technology should be given a particular country or not. Cryogenic technology will help the country achieving greatness as it can launch own commercial satellite via its satellite vehicle.
Satellite launching, as of now, is donated by Europeans and the Africans. In case a country achieves the technology of launching its own satellite domination will be removed. This is main fear that has been the key point the transfer of cryogenic technology.
Q: Does ISRO have any contingency plan to fall back on, now that there is little hope of getting cryogenic technology?
A: Why, should I have planned something? Why would have imagined that cryogenic technology would acquire such strategic dimensions? Cryogenic technology is not used for missile propulsion systems anywhere in the world.
At no time will I consider that cryogenic engines have any strategic implications, like application of missiles. Nobody will use cryogenic technology for developing missiles. Cryogenic technology is not considered as a strategic technology.
It is not as if ISRO has just been depending on the transfer of cryogenic technology to get going. Also, it is not as if they are basically zero in cryogenic technology. Work has already on in this area. Even though I am no longer with ISRO, I have worked there for almost 20 years. I know that cryogenic work has been continuously going on. That is why the ISRO scientists are confident that they will be able to meet the challenge.
Q: What kind of setback has the Indian space programme suffered because of the problem?
A: If we do not get the cryogenic technology, it does not mean that we will not be able to launch geo-synchronous satellite. It will, however, be more expensive. The launcher will be heavier, and there will be some safety problems.
Everybody did not start with cryogenic technology. I am confident that ISRO will recover in a few years’ time. As far the launching of satellite is concerned, there are a number of satellite launchers available in the world market. ISRO can always select the appropriate one. So, the satellite programme, and our communication programme, will not be affected at all.
But it is our own satellite launching programme i.e., launching of satellites from Indian soil that will put it’s behind by a few years. My assessment is that within two to five years, depending on a number of factors like our priorities, commitments and the money available, we will recover from is setback.
Q: Do you really think that the ISRO scientists can overcome these difficulties in two years?
A: Developing cryogenic technology has become a national commitment, a National programme. ISRO will gear up because it will become the single most important programme. If you ask me, I think it will take four years. But I have seen in the past that any programme or project, if given the highest priority, can be done faster and the time period for developing the technology can be reduced. So, one need not get tremendously worried. We will take it as a challenge. How to meet that challenge rather than this problem should be our concern now.
Q: The Americans had imposed sanctions against ISRO some time back. How much has that hurt ISRO?
A: Let me give you an example. In the 1980’s, we needed a Supercomputer. When we approached America, they refused, saying that it could be used for strategic purposes. Now we have our own supercomputer, Anurag. Now the Americans are saying that they would like sell supercomputers to India (laughs).
Q: In spite of India’s intensions of using cryogenic technology for peaceful purposes, why is it that it has not been able to convince the rest of the world, especially USA?
A: World politics is a strange thing. When politics and commercial interest combine, logic fails.
Q: Do you think that Indo-Russian cooperation in space technology will suffer because the Russians have reneged on the cryogenic deal?
A: We believe that it should not affect Indo-Russian cooperation in space technology. The entire issue of cryogenic engines is a business event and should be treated as one. But we should derive a lesson from the imbroglio. We have to be self-reliant in critical technology.
Q: As a compromise, Russia has offered India as many cryogenic engines as it wants without transfer of the actual technology….
A: I do not think ISRO will accept such a solution. It may not help ISRO. We cannot and should not make compromises. Technology has to be our mission. That is the only way India can be great.
Q: Recently, China has sold M-11 missiles to Pakistan. The USA has imposed sanctions against both China and Pakistan for the sale. How much of a threat does the M-11 pose to India?
A: First of all, have the M-11 missiles reached Pakistan? Even if they have, you should remember that India is a missile power (smiles).
Ketan Narottam Tanna/ New Delhi
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